The 2 Best Automakers Are Former Ford Sub-Brands

"Margin Of Error" (marginoferror) 04/06/2015 at 14:58 • Filed to: AUTOMOBILE HISTORY, FC

7

77

Happy Easter everyone, Today we're going to talk about resurrection.

Under Ford's umbrella, both Mazda and Volvo lost their ways and became somewhat irrelevant. Volvo got rid of its trademark R-cars, kept the first gen S60 on the market for way way way too long, and was competing with Jaguar and Land Rover for the most unreliable car award.

Meanwhile is Nagasaki, Mazda was being force to go against its core principles and phase out the RX-8, use steel for questionable sources, implement harmful cost-cutting measures and almost annihilate the legendary MazdaSpeed line.

For Volvo and Mazda, the financial crisis of 2008 was a burst of fresh air. As their embattled captor was struggling to survive, both brands (long with Jaguar and Land Rover took the opportunity to flee and came back to their roots.

Safety, fuel economy, driving involvement and enjoyment, both brands currently aiming for the sky.

Volvo are currently topping the chart for the best automakers on the planet.

They both developed ground-breaking technologies like Mazda's Skyactive engines and Volvo's ambitious 360 view technology that already saved a lot of lives, but that does't not stop them from making cars that people want.

Let's have a look at their most recent designs.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

The Volvo S80 is probably the best looking executive sedan on the market. Unlike the fat pigs that are the F10 BMW and the current Lexus GS. the S60 kept the mid-2000 awesome proportions, similar to an E39 BMW. Coincidentally, it is also powered by a perfectly balanced 3.2L straight six.

Meanwhile, Mazda rolled out its supremely beautiful Kobo design language. One of the first model to get the treatment was the 2014 Mazda6, a midsize sedan sexy as a Maserati for the price of a Camry.

On the concept car scene, both companies aren't dragging their asses.

Volvo unveiled this Ferrari FF competitor

This Aston-Martin -esque coupe

Meanwhile, Mazda presented a new rotary-engined RX-9 super sedan

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

And a successor to the to the legendary RX-7

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

In a couple of years, Mazda and Volvo went on their own and became amazing, they went from back runners to front runners, just like if Mclaren was to start using Mercedes engines again.

It's an amazing turnaround, and it's a good thing for us enthusiasts because if a company can make a 7-seater hybrid crossover look sexy ...

Or an economy car look that good

The future might be very interesting for automobile lovers. We cannot thank Ford enough for freeing these pure souls.

Follow me on Twitter

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 15:02

1

Interesting.

The Mazda 2 is a really good economy car. If they could find just a little bit more power they could have a winner.

Party-vi > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 15:02

2

Mazda has no rotary car for sale in the US and still hasn't but a real engine in the 6, ergo they suck enormous donkey testicles.

TheHondaBro > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 15:04

4

Volvo unveiled this Ferrari FF competitor

WHAT???

No no no no no no.

The Ferrari makes 651 hp. No Volvo will ever touch that. It's a pretty car, but it's not an FF competitor.

Margin Of Error > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. 04/06/2015 at 15:04

5

A Mazdaspeed2 would give the Fiesta ST a run for its money !

Margin Of Error > TheHondaBro 04/06/2015 at 15:06

1

Don't they have a 400hp + powertrain on the new XC90 ?

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 15:08

0

Yeah.

I mean, the Mazda 2 got head-up display, better looking, smaller, lighter, and possibly the speed 2 would be cheaper too.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 15:08

0

- Speaking about the how much better off Mazda is without Ford

- Top image is of the last Mazda on a Ford platform with a Ford engine and many more Ford components.

Also, as much as I love how the Mazdas of now look, the really need to develop an engine for the CX-5 and 6 that makes more than 200 horsepower.

As for Volvo, meh. Never been a fan of any of them really.

Margin Of Error > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/06/2015 at 15:10

0

Turbo skyactive will be the answer, it's coming soon.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 15:12

2

Just like the diesel engines they've been promising the US for what, 5 years now?

As far as I know the high compression SkyActiv engines won't take boost very well. They either need to develop a lower compression 4 to use or use a high compression V6 to get more power.

Margin Of Error > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. 04/06/2015 at 15:12

0

The Fiesta looks dated compared to this

Margin Of Error > Party-vi 04/06/2015 at 15:13

1

New rotary and Turbo skyactive are coming

Margin Of Error > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/06/2015 at 15:14

2

If there's one company to make crazy engines, it's Mazda.

Party-vi > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 15:17

4

Bullhockey. I don't believe that at all.

Funktheduck > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/06/2015 at 15:17

0

As a new Mazda owner I'm quite pleased. I agree with you on the engines. The 6 needs to be like the 3. The 3 can be had in base, mid, and top trims with the 2.0 and in mid and top trim with the 2.5. For the 6 replace the 2.0 with the 2.5 and either slot in a more powerful 4 cyl or a 6 cyl to replace the 2.5 in my example. For the cx-5 have the 2.5 as the only option or have one with a power bump or diesel option. I see them everywhere so they seem pretty popular as is.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 15:18

2

The current S80 is on the 10+ year-old EUCD platform, which is shared with Ford (S-Max, Mondeo/Fusion 2007-2012, Galaxy) and Landrover (Evoq, Freelander, LR2, Discovery Sport). It's a nice car, but it's very dated and suffers a number of platform-sharing faults, it is also due for replacement. The new XC90 is both a nicer, and more important car and illustrates your attempted point much better.

Of note, the Mazda six is ALSO a descendant, though slightly less directly, of the EUCD platform by way of the (arguably excellent) CD4 Ford platform which was partially co-developed with Mazda, also the 2 shares a great deal with the Fiesta. The new 3/cx-5 platform is far more representative and important from the standpoint of your argument, which I don't entirely disagree with, but is nonetheless, poorly backed up by this post. The new MX5/Miata deserves a mention, yet I see nothing about it. Mazda has done some really good things with "SkyActive" and you only mention it, instead of providing examples.

Also, I'll believe a new Rotary Mazda when I drive one.

TheHondaBro > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 15:19

0

The Estate is just a design concept, so it will never see the light of day anyway. If there is an engine under there, it's a 2.0 I4.

Margin Of Error > TheHondaBro 04/06/2015 at 15:21

0

That's a wild guess

Margin Of Error > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 04/06/2015 at 15:23

0

Like an old DC-3, the S80 has been constantly updated.

TheHondaBro > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 15:26

0

So is a 600+ hp V12, which is what it would realistically need to compete with the FF.

MultiplaOrgasms > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 15:29

0

There is so much nope in this post I can't even.

Margin Of Error > MultiplaOrgasms 04/06/2015 at 15:34

0

Dare to explain ?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 15:36

2

Pretty confident that this isn't a Mazda concept. Looks like a fan or magazine Photoshop to me...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 15:38

1

I do love what Mazda's been doing these last few years, and Volvo's new design direction is pretty great... Hope the next Speed3 is fantastic.

Margin Of Error > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/06/2015 at 15:41

1

A new Speed MX-5 would be awesome

MultiplaOrgasms > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 16:26

6

Let's see. "The legendary MazdaSpeed line of cars". Introduced in 2003 under FORD, discontinued in 2013 a few years AFTER Ford reduced their stake in Mazda because the 2nd gen Mazda 3 itself was discontinued. The S80 is so old, Leif Eriksson had two of them. That perfectly balanced inline 6 is an evolution of the B6304 used in the 960, itself being based on an Audi engine that never reached production, with properly undersquare dimensions like something from the 1930s. "Volvos Ferrari FF competitor". Tell me, what do the FF and Concept Estate have in common besides a 2-door wagonesque shape? Who is going to cross-shop a Turbo 4 FWD Volvo with a V12 AWD Ferrari? Then we have the "RX-9" and "RX-7" concept cars. First of all, that "RX-9" is called the Shinari and is a Mazda 6 concept. It is not powered by a rotary either, rather a run of the mill 2.0 Skyactiv. And that "RX-7"? LOL thats a fucking render from 2010, not something official from Mazda. As of now there are still only hints and rumours about a new rotary powered car.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Party-vi 04/06/2015 at 17:21

0

I don't know if it still is on, but Mazda was actually testing a rotary engine as a range extender for a 2 Hybrid at one point.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 18:28

0

Are modern (09+) Volvos still a reliability nightmare? Like, can they go 100k miles with just fluids and wear parts?

Jon VWW8 > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 19:33

0

Please Volvo make this.

Jeff Coats > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 19:46

0

Do not forget that it was Ford that made these brands successful. Ford owned these 2 manufacturers and improved their image while removing the stigma from Volvo for being a boring car.

ScottAJ > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. 04/06/2015 at 20:14

1

The 2 we've had here in the states was really disappointing. Noisy, harsh ride...just felt cheap. This new 2 looks amazing, and I wish we would get it here in the US....but we'll only get the sedan, badged as a Scion with an UUUUUUUUGLY front end. :(

dogisbadob > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 20:45

0

Toyota has never been a Ford sub-brand :p

maxburto > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 21:04

1

Mazda seems really invested their high compression ratio gas engines (1 part of the 3 part skyactiv system), so I don't know if they will ever do a turbo skyactiv gas engine.

kms1990 > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 21:34

1

thats going to be very difficult, the compression ratio is already 14:1 so adding a turbo will be very tricky

kms1990 > Party-vi 04/06/2015 at 21:35

0

ok its sub 200hp but my father has one and its smooth and feels more powerful than it is. it can get up and go when needed and still get 40mpg average.

MaineAssassin > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 21:37

0

Was this typed out by an intern who hasn't been potty trained yet?

C'mon man proofreading isn't that hard.

Personal favorite:

"but that does't not stop them from making cars that people want."

john herd > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 21:37

0

the volvo does not havea better transmission nor a better resale valuethgan a lexus

john herd > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 21:38

0

looks great

john herd > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 21:39

0

where is there a mazdaspped 2

john herd > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 21:41

0

not in the northeast where snow ice and rain are predominant

scoob > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 21:51

0

This is a DBS.

Party-vi > kms1990 04/06/2015 at 22:10

0

Boo and hiss. Mazda is the only company that doesn't offer a +200hp engine in their mid size sedan.

Amoore100 > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 22:26

1

As in they added a V8 then they took it away...look, I'm even a Volvo enthusiast and I agree that nine years is way too long to let a model sit...technically it's all Ford's fault since the S60, S80, and XC90 were all designed under Ford ownership and lasted waaay beyond their sell-by date...I still want to find a V8 S80 and XC90 though and park them next to each other :D

turbojames > Margin Of Error 04/06/2015 at 23:01

1

I love the way Mazda is going (there is a Miata parked in my dad's garage anyway) especially design-wise, but goddamnit we need a new RX car, or at least an expansion of MazdaSpeed.

Tony > Margin Of Error 04/07/2015 at 00:00

0

Ok, now I'm no grammar nazi, but does anyone actually proofread this stuff? Or use spell check (which is nearly automatic nowadays)? Kind of embarrassing for the author, I think. This article is a mess!

boxrocket > TheHondaBro 04/07/2015 at 00:52

1

No production Volvo, perhaps. Noble's already tuned the Yamaha V8 found in the old XC90/S80 over 600hp, and Polestar made a 500+hp engine for the S60 Polestar concept.

CRider > Margin Of Error 04/07/2015 at 00:53

0

Since when does shooting brake = Ferrari FF competitor? No, if that thing makes it to market it'll be front or AWD, and have a 4-5 cyl turbo with nowhere near Ferrari power.

boxrocket > turbojames 04/07/2015 at 00:57

1

Mazdaspeed all the things!

Seriously, from the 2 to the CX-9. If Ford can successfully sell Edge Sports and Explorer Sports and what are essentially Explorer and Flex SHOs, we can have Mazdaspeed CX-5s and CX-9s. Works for BMW M and AMG...

saabstory | fixes bikes, breaks cars > Margin Of Error 04/07/2015 at 01:49

1

GM was more thorough in their extermination plan.

Dunnik > Margin Of Error 04/07/2015 at 02:25

1

I find I agree with the above post, somewhat to my surprise. I've driven Volvos from each of its eras - what I'll call Classic, Ford and Modern - and despite lingering doubts about its ownership I think they're back on form.

The S80 is a beautifully understated looker, just as a luxury car should be. In FWD form it handles as you would expect a big luxury FWD sedan to handle like, except better. It's more the tuning than the chassis, I suspect. Power is nice, and the seats...Volvo seats have long been the best the business, I think.

Mazda's come a long way too. The 2's, 3's and 5's in our rental fleet are pretty reliable. They handle better, even the stupid 5, than almost anything on the lot. They're finally starting to update their 1990's style interiors (like Mitsu) and they're not using crappy steel anymore (a true Unicorn in Toronto is a Protege without rust).

Still think their front ends look silly. They've backed away from the huge smiley face but not far enough.

samssun > Margin Of Error 04/07/2015 at 06:20

0

Counterpoint. Mazda now makes some very pretty cars, none of which I'd consider driving because they're all stuck with awful SkyActiv 4-bangers turning the front wheels. If ever there were a time for the Ford relationship, it's now:

Ecoboost 1.6 & 2.0 in the Miata & MS Miata, Ecoboost 2.0 & 2.3 in the 3S & AWD MS3, Ecoboost 2.3 & 2.7TT in the AWD 6S & MS6, and maybe find a way to use the 3.5TT.

Volvo was made irrelevant when every other car became 10x safer than anyone will ever care about, leaving them with extra price and complexity for crap like front hood airbags, but no real benefit to the consumer. I'd drive something reasonably light with the turbo I6 and AWD, but instead everything's going 4-cylinder while getting fatter.

samssun > Margin Of Error 04/07/2015 at 06:23

0

If there's one company to make niche engines car nerds obsess over while everyone else is stuck with crap, it's Mazda. Ford already has every engine Mazda needs for it's entire range of cars: Ecoboost 1.6, 2.0, 2.3, and 2.7 (3.5 might be wishful thinking), in the standard and Mazdaspeed version of the Miata, 3, and 6.

Combine Mazda's design and driving dynamics, and you would immediately have the most appealing brand out there, instead their pretty cars will die a mediocre death by boredom.

Leon711 > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. 04/07/2015 at 06:36

0

The 115hp Sport Nav isn't bad at 0-100km/h in 8.7

Hoccy > Margin Of Error 04/07/2015 at 07:48

1

The only difference between the Volvo of today and the Volvo of the past (1975-2010), is that they now don't have a single bad car in their lineup. Some of them might seem dated (V70/S80), but keeps up surprisingly well thanks to good engines and facelifts. Volvo has been that way since WWII regarding their bigger models. And it works where the brand already has a decent customer base.

Now the smaller models (V40, S60/V60) are a lot better than their predecessors (C30/S40/V50), something that makes the whole lineup seem like the best since the early 90's. Add the new XC90 and there should be a Volvo for everyone. The smaller models have always been very influenced by either the parent company (Ford) or daughter company (DAF). These models has always had lots of problems the first years, before a bunch of facelifts turned them into good cars. Now that they develop and make those cars themselves, things are better.

So yeah, while some things in your article seems a bit off, Volvo's future seems a lot brighter now than during the Ford years.

Two Drink Minimum > kms1990 04/07/2015 at 07:57

2

I own the Mazda6—it's my wife's car—and the engine to me is a disappointment. It's not bad at highway/cruising speeds, especially with the 6 speed manual. But take-offs are terrible. First gear is this lurching, uneven affair, and second gear isn't a whole lot better. The Mazda6 is a long strider that takes a while to get up to speed, but once it does, the ride is smooth and rewarding.

I will say this though. The gas mileage is fantastic. My wife loves the car, and frankly, I love everything about it except the anemic engine and the cabin noise at highway speeds. If you can put up with those two, it's a fantastic automobile.

nerd_racing > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. 04/07/2015 at 07:58

0

some days I miss my mazda 2. Had a spirited green touring 5 speed.

Two Drink Minimum > maxburto 04/07/2015 at 08:03

1

I'm thinking this as well. The SkyActiv stuff was a major investment and I wonder if Mazda was looking toward a future of $5 and $6 per gallon gas when it made the move. Now gas is $2.45 up here in Vermont (which means it's probably close to $2.10 elsewhere) and Mazda has no ability to spice up its power plants with turbocharged designs.

LWW > Margin Of Error 04/07/2015 at 08:59

1

Freedom is still a couple of months away. Volvo,Jag,Land Rover are still under the spell from the Ford sale. There where rules about what could be done and when. Ford under it current control got exactly what they needed. More market share in a down economy. Six years after the sale these brands are allowed to emerge again with new products and the end of an agreement that prohibited any growth. The 1st step is to reclaim your market share and grow with your new investment. The Timing and the products could just work out well for them after being held back for so long. Volvo has free press and lots of fans. It is already on the move outside of the US for all the right reasons. I always liked Mazda it was one of Fords best ventures. Just Sayin!!

LWW > TheHondaBro 04/07/2015 at 09:05

1

40% of is the new SPA platform XC90,s90,v90 . It's now a reality. The closest to the Estate will be the V90. I not sure there is enough of a market for the Estate concept.

Coty > Margin Of Error 04/07/2015 at 09:46

0

Meanwhile.

Margin Of Error > john herd 04/07/2015 at 09:49

0

There's still eight months of non-freezing, dry weather.

Margin Of Error > saabstory | fixes bikes, breaks cars 04/07/2015 at 09:49

0

GM is a car Nazi

Margin Of Error > Jeff Coats 04/07/2015 at 09:50

0

I doubt that

Margin Of Error > MaineAssassin 04/07/2015 at 09:51

0

Thanks for pointing this out, I will redact it

Margin Of Error > Jon VWW8 04/07/2015 at 09:51

0

yes

Margin Of Error > john herd 04/07/2015 at 09:52

0

super great !

Margin Of Error > Coty 04/07/2015 at 09:52

0

:-(

Jeremy > Coty 04/07/2015 at 11:58

0

Damn GM

AisforApple > turbojames 04/07/2015 at 14:09

1

Mark it down: 2017. MazdaSpeed3 will be out. Originally planned for 2018, it will be ready a year ahead of time.

AisforApple > boxrocket 04/07/2015 at 14:23

1

I agree. At various times there have been MazdaSpeed Miatas (I think second gen), MazdaSpeed6 (desperately needed now - 184 HP and 185 LB/Ft torque is not enough for me), MazdaSpeed3 (until 2013, coming back in 2017). Based on some of the coyness and how questions were answered regarding future products, I think we will see more MazdaSpeed versions as money allows for R&D. Remember they are a relatively small company, so they need to make sure they have the factory space for their bread and butter sales first (hence why they are opening a new plant in Mexico, and certainly, Toyota, buying the scion iA sedan from the Mazda plant will help. I have heard the next gen CX-9 will get a 2.5L turbo (Mazda has repeatedly said no more 6 cylinders). I sensed by what execs said, we can expect a MazdaSpeed6 with that engine in the next 3-4 years (just a feeling). If they can fit a turbo into it, a MazdaSpeed2 makes sense to me, and a MazdaSpeed Miata if they can find a lightweight turbo, and maintain close to the 50/50 front to rear weight distribution they busted their buns to get in the 2016 Miata. I would expect little more than 200, and maybe less, HP from that model, about 150-175 for a 2, over 300 for the 3, and 6 if there ever is one.

PS- the Mazda6 coupe due in 2017 or 2018 is very sharp looking. Perfect time for a MazdaSpeed version!

MultiplaOrgasms > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/07/2015 at 20:10

1

It is. One of the first results when GIS-ing this is from a 5(!) year old forum post. lol

jahbro > Two Drink Minimum 04/08/2015 at 05:36

1

I have a '15 M6 (Mazda6!) and I do agree with you about the 1st gear starting. No matter what I do I get some lurching and bucking, especially if I'm trying to accelerate with any authority. Once up to speed, it feels like a freight train though, it pulls strongly from 80 mph when the need arrises. It's also very smooth on the highway (and around the corners) and I don't find the road noise too much either, although most of my previous cars have been on the small and sporty side! The front seats are also side-huggingly good, amazing for essentially what is a family sedan! Overall mpg is about 30 in a mix of city/highway.

Two Drink Minimum > jahbro 04/08/2015 at 08:07

0

Love the seats in the Touring edition. And I agree, the power delivery is much better once into third gear and above, while cornering is fantastic.

As for noise, my last cars were a Wrangler TJ, a Honda Fit and now a Fiat Abarth. I'm definitely not afraid of loud noises. I just feel like a car as well sorted and presented as the Mazda6 should be a tad quieter on the highway.

Shermanator > Margin Of Error 04/08/2015 at 14:53

1

The problem is long term with both companies is where is the capital going to come from to replace their platforms down the road? The Mazada 6 platform is pretty Damn old and in another 5-10 years will be ancient.

That was one of the main reasons why Ford got rid of their extra distractions like Mazada, Volvo, A-M and Jaguar, because it would cost them billions of dollars they didn't have to keep them current.

Two Drink Minimum > jahbro 04/08/2015 at 16:39

0

Regarding the damnable Mazda6 clutch action. It turns out the culprit is probably the dual-mass flywheel Mazda opted to use in the 6. These are more common in diesel engines, where their ability to damp noise and vibration at low RPM is a key benefit. But they can also produce unpredictable clutch action, which would really explain a lot.

MikeNZ > MultiplaOrgasms 08/13/2015 at 04:57

0

It’s a photoshopped Aston Martin v8 vantage

MikeNZ > scoob 08/13/2015 at 04:59

0

MultiplaOrgasms > MikeNZ 08/13/2015 at 05:27

0

*DBS